Creating outlines from small font sizes in illustrator eps..

Graham Waiffers schreef:
> Zohrabian21.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> My Co-worker is trying to create outlines of a map file to send to
>> print. the font sizes are very small so when creating to outlines,
>> the
>> fonts and lines in the maps appear to be way to bold to read when
>> printed.
>>
>>
>> How do we create outlines and still have it come out crisp, clean and
>> legible?
>>
>>
>> thanks,
>> Nora
> The size of the outlines should be the same as the size of he original
> text. Zoom in on the area in question, de-select everything and see what
> it looks like. I betcha it'll be okay.
>


Exactly. Do not always believe your screen at 100%.
 >> Stay informed about: Creating outlines from small font sizes in illustrator eps.. 

On Jun 24, 3:05 am, puzzle <nepisemM... RemoveThis @globalnet.hr> wrote:
> Why text looks "Fatter" when converted to outlines:
>
> from:http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bbafc26/0
>
> "Thomas Phinney, Program Manager Fonts & Core Technologies from Adobe
> Systems tell about why the text fattens when you convert to outlines.
>
> TWO things happen when you outline fonts:
> - loss of hinting
> - change in fill algorithm
>
> The loss of hinting makes certain features potentially inconsistent.
> For example, letter strokes that you expect to be the same width might
> turn out to be different widths depending on how they fall on the grid
> of the output device. Slight differences can get magnified
> unexpectedly, like rounded letters going below the baseline. This
> happens because the information that makes the outlines round
> consistently to the pixel grid has been lost.
>
> The change in the fill algorithm combines with the lack of hinting to
> make the letters look fatter. Font rasterizing uses a fill algorithm
> that turns on a pixel only when the center of the pixel is within the
> glyph outline (center-scan). Graphics rasterizing uses a fill
> algorithm that turns on a pixel when any part of the pixel is within
> the graphic outline (overscan). Given that the outline is no longer
> being rounded to pixel boundaries at key points, the rendering will
> generally be at least one pixel thicker, occasionally two.
>
> Of course, how much difference this makes depends on the size and
> style of the type, and especially on the resolution of the output
> device. At 2400 dpi with typical text sizes, the effect is pretty
> subtle. At 600 dpi with 6 point text, the effect is quite obvious."
>
> puzzle
> cetirib... RemoveThis @gmail.com
>
> ***************************************************************************­************
>
> My Co-worker is trying to create outlines of a map file to send to
> print. the font sizes are very small so when creating to outlines,
> the fonts and lines in the maps appear to be way to bold to read when
> printed.
> How do we create outlines and still have it come out crisp, clean and
> legible?
>
> thanks,
> Nora
> ***************************************************************************­************

Thanks.

So how would we change things on our end so that the printing place
prints our maps without that bold look? check the resolution?
 >> Stay informed about: Creating outlines from small font sizes in illustrator eps.. 

Why text looks "Fatter" when converted to outlines:

from: http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bbafc26/0

"Thomas Phinney, Program Manager Fonts & Core Technologies from Adobe
Systems tell about why the text fattens when you convert to outlines.

TWO things happen when you outline fonts:
- loss of hinting
- change in fill algorithm

The loss of hinting makes certain features potentially inconsistent.
For example, letter strokes that you expect to be the same width might
turn out to be different widths depending on how they fall on the grid
of the output device. Slight differences can get magnified
unexpectedly, like rounded letters going below the baseline. This
happens because the information that makes the outlines round
consistently to the pixel grid has been lost.

The change in the fill algorithm combines with the lack of hinting to
make the letters look fatter. Font rasterizing uses a fill algorithm
that turns on a pixel only when the center of the pixel is within the
glyph outline (center-scan). Graphics rasterizing uses a fill
algorithm that turns on a pixel when any part of the pixel is within
the graphic outline (overscan). Given that the outline is no longer
being rounded to pixel boundaries at key points, the rendering will
generally be at least one pixel thicker, occasionally two.

Of course, how much difference this makes depends on the size and
style of the type, and especially on the resolution of the output
device. At 2400 dpi with typical text sizes, the effect is pretty
subtle. At 600 dpi with 6 point text, the effect is quite obvious."

puzzle
cetiriboje.RemoveThis@gmail.com

***************************************************************************************

My Co-worker is trying to create outlines of a map file to send to
print. the font sizes are very small so when creating to outlines,
the fonts and lines in the maps appear to be way to bold to read when
printed.
How do we create outlines and still have it come out crisp, clean and
legible?

thanks,
Nora
***************************************************************************************
 >> Stay informed about: Creating outlines from small font sizes in illustrator eps.. 

On Jun 24, 1:18 pm, puzzle <nepisemM... DeleteThis @globalnet.hr> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:34:01 -0700 (PDT), Zohrabia... DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:
> >On Jun 24, 3:05 am, puzzle <nepisemM... DeleteThis @globalnet.hr> wrote:
> >> Why text looks "Fatter" when converted to outlines:
>
> >> from:http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bbafc26/0
>
> >> "Thomas Phinney, Program Manager Fonts & Core Technologies from Adobe
> >> Systems tell about why the text fattens when you convert to outlines.
>
> >> TWO things happen when you outline fonts:
> >> - loss of hinting
> >> - change in fill algorithm
>
> >> The loss of hinting makes certain features potentially inconsistent.
> >> For example, letter strokes that you expect to be the same width might
> >> turn out to be different widths depending on how they fall on the grid
> >> of the output device. Slight differences can get magnified
> >> unexpectedly, like rounded letters going below the baseline. This
> >> happens because the information that makes the outlines round
> >> consistently to the pixel grid has been lost.
>
> >> The change in the fill algorithm combines with the lack of hinting to
> >> make the letters look fatter. Font rasterizing uses a fill algorithm
> >> that turns on a pixel only when the center of the pixel is within the
> >> glyph outline (center-scan). Graphics rasterizing uses a fill
> >> algorithm that turns on a pixel when any part of the pixel is within
> >> the graphic outline (overscan). Given that the outline is no longer
> >> being rounded to pixel boundaries at key points, the rendering will
> >> generally be at least one pixel thicker, occasionally two.
>
> >> Of course, how much difference this makes depends on the size and
> >> style of the type, and especially on the resolution of the output
> >> device. At 2400 dpi with typical text sizes, the effect is pretty
> >> subtle. At 600 dpi with 6 point text, the effect is quite obvious."
>
> >> puzzle
> >> cetirib... DeleteThis @gmail.com
>
> >> ***************************************************************************­­************
>
> >> My Co-worker is trying to create outlines of a map file to send to
> >> print. the font sizes are very small so when creating to outlines,
> >> the fonts and lines in the maps appear to be way to bold to read when
> >> printed.
> >> How do we create outlines and still have it come out crisp, clean and
> >> legible?
>
> >> thanks,
> >> Nora
> >> ***************************************************************************­­************
>
> >Thanks.
>
> >So how would we change things on our end so that the printing place
> >prints our maps without that bold look? check the resolution?
>
> Possible solutions:
>
> The first: Save pdf /eps files with embedding fonts
> (do not create outlines in Illustrator).
>
> The second: Object \ Flatten Transparency...
> then "Convert all text to outlines".
> You may change resolution up to 9600 ppi there.
>
> The third and important: your printer would be able to print at higher
> resolutions (over 300 dpi).
> For small fonts I would like 600 or more dpi.
>
> ps. execuse me on my poor english.
> thanks
>
> puzzle
> cetirib... DeleteThis @gmail.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

great thanks.
 >> Stay informed about: Creating outlines from small font sizes in illustrator eps.. 

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:34:01 -0700 (PDT), Zohrabian21.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:

>On Jun 24, 3:05 am, puzzle <nepisemM....RemoveThis@globalnet.hr> wrote:
>> Why text looks "Fatter" when converted to outlines:
>>
>> from:http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bbafc26/0
>>
>> "Thomas Phinney, Program Manager Fonts & Core Technologies from Adobe
>> Systems tell about why the text fattens when you convert to outlines.
>>
>> TWO things happen when you outline fonts:
>> - loss of hinting
>> - change in fill algorithm
>>
>> The loss of hinting makes certain features potentially inconsistent.
>> For example, letter strokes that you expect to be the same width might
>> turn out to be different widths depending on how they fall on the grid
>> of the output device. Slight differences can get magnified
>> unexpectedly, like rounded letters going below the baseline. This
>> happens because the information that makes the outlines round
>> consistently to the pixel grid has been lost.
>>
>> The change in the fill algorithm combines with the lack of hinting to
>> make the letters look fatter. Font rasterizing uses a fill algorithm
>> that turns on a pixel only when the center of the pixel is within the
>> glyph outline (center-scan). Graphics rasterizing uses a fill
>> algorithm that turns on a pixel when any part of the pixel is within
>> the graphic outline (overscan). Given that the outline is no longer
>> being rounded to pixel boundaries at key points, the rendering will
>> generally be at least one pixel thicker, occasionally two.
>>
>> Of course, how much difference this makes depends on the size and
>> style of the type, and especially on the resolution of the output
>> device. At 2400 dpi with typical text sizes, the effect is pretty
>> subtle. At 600 dpi with 6 point text, the effect is quite obvious."
>>
>> puzzle
>> cetirib....RemoveThis@gmail.com
>>
>> ***************************************************************************­************
>>
>> My Co-worker is trying to create outlines of a map file to send to
>> print. the font sizes are very small so when creating to outlines,
>> the fonts and lines in the maps appear to be way to bold to read when
>> printed.
>> How do we create outlines and still have it come out crisp, clean and
>> legible?
>>
>> thanks,
>> Nora
>> ***************************************************************************­************
>
>Thanks.
>
>So how would we change things on our end so that the printing place
>prints our maps without that bold look? check the resolution?

Possible solutions:

The first: Save pdf /eps files with embedding fonts
(do not create outlines in Illustrator).

The second: Object \ Flatten Transparency...
then "Convert all text to outlines".
You may change resolution up to 9600 ppi there.

The third and important: your printer would be able to print at higher
resolutions (over 300 dpi).
For small fonts I would like 600 or more dpi.

ps. execuse me on my poor english.
thanks

puzzle
cetiriboje.RemoveThis@gmail.com
 >> Stay informed about: Creating outlines from small font sizes in illustrator eps..